'If Modi sincerely thinks that Dalits are also Hindus then spread this message to the entire nation through programmes like Mann Ki Baat.'
'We would love to listen to the PM tell the nation to look upon us as fellow Indians and human beings.'
Subodh Parmar, a member and spokesperson of the Una Dalit Atyachar Ladat Samiti, which plans to bring one million Dalits to Ahmedabad on Sunday, July 31, and submit a charter of demands to the Gujarat Chief Minister Anandiben Patel, speaks with Rediff.com's Prasanna D Zore.
What are your five major demands?
Whenever those arrested in the Una attack on Dalits get bail they should be arrested again as per provisions of PASA (Prevention of Anti-Social Activities) Act so that not only these people but nobody else will dare to commit such crimes against humanity. These gaurakshaks have terrorised Gujarati society.
Not all the people who are seen in the videos that have gone viral have been arrested. If you look at the way these attacks were carried against Dalits it reeks of a pre-planned conspiracy.
The police and the sarpanch were also involved and hence they should also be arrested and tried in a court of law.
We have now decided to end to the undignified job of skinning dead animals, for which we are being attacked.
As it will be a question of our livelihood then, we are demanding land for those rendered jobless. Our economy depends on skinning of animals; we do not own any land.
The fourth demand is that safai karmacharis, who too are engaged in such inhuman and undignified sources of livelihood, and who are not even getting minimum wages guaranteed by various laws of the land, should also get the benefits of the Seventh Pay Commission recommendations and instead of employing them as contractual labourers, they should be made permanent.
The final demand is the government should make provisions for giving housing units to Dalits in urban areas because even after Independence Dalits have been socially boycotted, discriminated against and exploited socially, economically and sexually in Gujarat's villages.
Casteism in villages is extremely high. We are not allowed to enter temples, we are not given rations and food; and if we raise our voices for our fundamental rights, the upper caste people in the village boycott us socially.
We want the government to build housing colonies for Dalits in urban areas.
Will such urban housing colonies for Dalits end casteism in Gujarat/India? Do you think Dalits will be accepted by people living in urban areas?
Yes, that may not happen in urban areas. If you look at instances of such exploitation and casteism they are more prevalent in rural areas. In rural areas, those who own the capital, the land, hold sway over lower castes.
If we are resettled in urban areas then as per Dr Babasaheb Ambedkar's views we will be spared of caste atrocities.
How many Dalits from Gujarat do you plan to bring to Ahmedabad on July 31 to push your charter of demands to the Anandiben Patel government?
Not just from Gujarat but people from outside Gujarat too will be joining us in our protest. As per our estimates there will be around 8 lakh to 10 lakh (800,000 to 1 million) people coming to Ahmedabad this Sunday.
We are making all the efforts to get more than a million people there and are confident that at least 10 lakh people will come.
What if the government doesn't accept all these five demands?
The government will have to accept (these demands). For ages we are facing such injustices and brutalities.
If they can sit across the table and accept the demands of Patidars (Patels, who have been agitating since last August for reservations in government jobs and admissions to government colleges) -- to give them 10 per cent reservation under economically backward class category -- then why can't they accept our demands?
Who will be responsible for a law and order problem, if any, on July 31?
That will be solely the responsibility of the government (of Gujarat).
Why shouldn't the organisers also be equally responsible if there is breakdown of law and order?
It is entirely our responsibility that we will not let such a thing (breakdown of law and order) happen, but I am sure the government will incite the demonstrators or create such conditions to taint us.
But if our demands are not accepted in the coming days then anything can happen; and then we will not take any responsibility because what will happen next will entirely depend on this government.
We have called this demonstration under Una Dalit Atyachar Ladat Samiti, an umbrella for around 3,000 Dalit organisations across Gujarat, and if the government doesn't accept our demands, then we will also be pondering over, though we have not given it a serious thought yet, converting to some other religion and get rid of the stigma of being Dalits in a democratic country like India.
Why should we remain Hindus when we are just Hindus for the sake of symbolism, but do not enjoy the rights and benefits like other Hindus?
Why should we belong to a religion that doesn't accept us as one among them and give us dignity and respect?
They (upper caste people) do not consider us Hindus and torture us brutally for doing a job they will never ever do in their lives and that happens because our varna vyavastha (caste system) has been designed with Dalits at the bottom of the caste pyramid.
Shudra main bhi hum ati shudra hai (We, the people who skin dead animals, are at the lowermost rung in the caste system).
Whatever happens now, you have decided that you will not engage in skinning or burying dead cows?
Yes, 100 per cent.
Who then, will do this job?
That will be THE government's responsibility.
What are the reasons for the Dalits of Gujarat to organise themselves in such large numbers and so spontaneously like they have never done after Independence?
In Mehsana district alone, in the last six months, Dalits have been socially boycotted in four villages. Two of these villages are just about 15 km from the village that our country's current prime minister hails from (Vadnagar): they are Nortol and Nandali.
Abhrampura, which is about 3 km away from the village of the Gujarat chief minister, has also seen a similar social boycott of Dalits; the fourth village Bechar, in Becharaji taluka, and falls under the constituency of Gujarat's Minister of State for Home Rajnikantbhai Patel.
The upper caste people in all these four villages have been obeying a boycott of Dalits since the last six months.
Again, in Rajula, the upper castes tried to burn alive four Dalits a few months ago, but that case has been suppressed because of political pressure.
The video of the beating of Dalits by gaurakshaks in Una finally sparked a spontaneous protest.
What message do you, as somebody who has plans to organise almost a million Dalits in Gujarat, have for the chief minister of Gujarat and prime minister?
For decades politicians have been coming to Dalits only for their votes and have brought no systemic changes for their welfare.
We only request the chief minister and the prime minister to think about our welfare too. Please stop those symbolic lunches, dinners and tea-drinking sessions at the houses of Dalits before the elections. Please accept our five demands.
If both of you sincerely think that Dalits are also Hindus then we request you to spread this message to the entire nation through programmes like Mann Ki Baat.
More than Hindus we would love to listen the chief minister and the prime minister call upon the nation to look upon us as fellow Indians and human beings and not Dalits of India or people of India belonging to a particular religion.
We believe in humanity and if you too believe in humanity, then why aren't you raising your voice against the inhuman treatment meted out to Dalits?
Why do you think the prime minister has not spoken against the atrocities against Dalits so far? Dalits were subjected to a lot of inhumanities not just in Gujarat, but across many other states belonging to those ruled by the Congress and other regional parties?
He hasn't yet spoken because he doesn't have any place for Dalits in his heart. So, how will he talk about us in his Mann Ki Baat?
If you remember Amit Shah (the Bharatiya Janata Party president) bathed with Dalit sadhus in the recent Kumbh Mela. I am surprised these politicians manage to get caste equations even among sadhus.
Once a person becomes a sadhu he shreds himself of all material aspects of existence and people like Amit Shah bathe with them just to appease Dalits.
If they can bathe with sadhus, then Una, which has now become a national stigma, has not seen any words of comfort from Shah or Modi.
