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The Rediff Interview/Dr Subramanian Swamy

On the day Pazha Nedumaran went into the forest as an emissary to negotiate with Veerappan for the release of Dr Rajakumar, an angry Dr Subramanian Swamy questioned both the K Karunanidhi and S M Krishna governments.

"How could they send 'an LTTE stooge' to negotiate?" he asked. He also wondered whether Karnataka Chief Minister S M Krishna would take such a 'dangerous and disgusting decision' without Sonia Gandhi's approval?

When Dr Swamy met the press, he congratulated the Tamil Maanila Congress leader of the Opposition S Balakrishnan for calling Nedumaran anti-national and asking for his arrest on the floor of the Tamil Nadu assembly.

In an interview with Shobha Warrier, Dr Swamy explains why Nedumaran is the wrong choice as an emissary.

When I interviewed P Nedumaran, I asked him why he wanted the people of Madurai to register themselves as Tamils and not as Indians, he said he was a Tamil first and there was nothing anti-national in that feeling.

Anyone who does not say, 'I am Indian first and then a Tamilian', is anti-national. Mr Neduamran doesn't tell people, "You should say I am a Tamilian first and an Indian afterwards." He says, you register yourself as the citizen of a Tamil nation. There is no concept of a Tamil nation. India is one nation and Tamil Nadu is a part of that.

You wanted him to be arrested for saying so.

Sure. Because he has violated two Acts: Section 124 A of the Indian Penal Code and Section 18 of the Census Act of 1948. He was trying to subvert the census system by asking people to register themselves as something that is not there in the provision. You can either register as an Indian citizen or you can say you are a foreigner.

Nedumaran also said that when Jyoti Basu said he was a Bengali and was proud of being a Bengali, nobody criticised him.

That's different. If you ask Jyoti Basu, are you an Indian, he will say, I am an Indian. How is he going to register himself in the census? He will register as an Indian citizen. Is Mr Nedumaran ready to say that he is going to register as an Indian citizen? He doesn't say that. He talks about a Tamil nation. He is a fraud. He is now scared because of the public reaction in the country. He should be put in jail.

Why are you against Nedumaran going to the jungle as an emissary? After all, he says he is undertaking the task on humanitarian grounds.

I am sorry if it's a humanitarian mission. He belongs to the same organisation, which has conducted the kidnapping. So, he is going there on behalf of the same organisation, which is a banned organisation. So, how can he be an emissary?

You mean the LTTE?

Yes, the LTTE. There is no question about it.

Dr Rajakumar's sons believe that if Nedumaran goes and negotiates, he will be able to bring their father back. Yesterday, they were here to request him to reconsider his decision.

Once Dr Rajakumar was kidnapped, the kidnapping became a federal crime, and therefore it becomes the responsibility of the state. Family members may be consulted, but they cannot decide. The decision has to be taken by the government in the national interest.

After the leader of the Opposition called him anti-national, it was quite evident that Nedumaran was hurt...

Good. Let him be hurt. Let him leave this country. He doesn't belong to this country. He has hurt the sentiments of the entire Indian people by saying that people should register themselves as belonging to a Tamil nation. We don't want him to go (to the forest). Who wants him to go as an emissary? I want to know.

Do you think Mr Karunanidhi wanted him to go as an emissary?

Yes, because Karunanidhi is afraid of the LTTE. The LTTE wanted Nedumaran to be sent so that everything would look like an internal matter for them to arrange. Who cares whether Mr Nedumaran goes or not!

You alleged that Rs 25 crore was handed over to the LTTE in Delhi. Does that mean the LTTE is present all over the country?

Unfortunately, Indians have become cowards. The LTTE today has terrorised everybody except a few like myself. They have managed to win over the Congress party, which is now agreeing to go into a programme with their stooges like Veeramani. Somebody from 10, Janpath telephoned Nedumaran. Who that somebody is I don't know. Nedumaran was encouraged to go. Sonia Gandhi has not protested. She only said it was Karunanidhi's decision. Why didn't she protest?

Why didn't she protest? After all, her husband was killed by the LTTE.

Exactly. I am asking the same question. I want to know the answer. She should have been shocked. She talked about her vendetta when Narasimha Rao was the prime minister. At least, Narasimha Rao got Interpol to hunt for Prabhakaran. It was during his period that the whole case was completed. They tried to sabotage the trial court case with the Jain Commission, but could not.

Do you think Veerappan has become a slave to the LTTE?

Yes.

You wanted commando action to capture Veerappan. But it could be dangerous for Dr Rajakumar.

It (commando action) will mean the end of Veerappan. I don't know how he is called Dr Rajakumar. You people give doctorates to everybody. The only way to save cine actor Rajakumar and bring him back alive is by commando action because Veerappan is not going to leave him alive.

Do you see a nexus between politicians and Veerappan?

Not all politicians have a nexus with Veerappan. In fact, Nakkeeran Gopal is a journalist and he has a nexus with them. See, his magazine has improved so much in quality ever since he came in touch with Veerappan. So, don't talk about the nexus of politicians alone. It is just cowardice that is permeating in Indian society. Politicians are also part of this. Yes, they have been benefiting from money being sent for elections by Veerappan.

Many who support the LTTE compare the Palestinian struggle with that of the Tamils in Sri Lanka. They also say that nobody criticises anyone for supporting the Palestinians.

But Palestinians have not killed their own people. Palestinians have not assassinated Arafat. You see, this man (LTTE leader V Prabhakaran) is assassinating Tamils every day. The other day, a Tamil MP was killed. This is a murderous organisation. It is not a political organisation. It is purely for the advancement of Prabhakaran and nothing else.

It was reported that there was a possibility of direct talks between Prabhakaran and President Kumaratunga. You said today that if he turned up for the talks, he should be arrested and extradited to India. But if the talks are going to benefit that country...

Sorry. He is a murderer and he is wanted for murder in this country. I can't go by what is good. It is like saying, if you get raped and a genius is born, what is wrong with the rape then? I can't accept this kind of logic. He is wanted here by the law. They have to catch him and bring him here.

If the talks are necessary to bring peace to Sri Lanka...

So? If he is caught and brought here, there will be peace tomorrow in Sri Lanka. He is the main stumbling block for peace in Sri Lanka.

Now, let me ask you about the TANSI case verdict. You must be delighted that Jayalalitha was convicted...

I am not delighted that she was convicted. I am happy that I have been vindicated because I was the one who filed the case.

As things stand, she will not be able to contest the election.

Yes, she will not be.

But on every platform, she declares that when she comes back to power, Karunanidhi will have to spend his entire life in jail.

Let her put him in jail!

Why is she so confident about coming back to power?

Otherwise, the party workers will get demoralised. So, she has to talk in that language. But if she puts Karunanidhi in jail, I will not object because Karunanidhi deserves to go to jail.

Why?

The amount of corruption that he has done! If the stupid woman had not behaved the way she did, by now I would have filed those cases against Karunanidhi.

She should have had the courage to say that she did all the corruption at the behest of Sasikala. She should have declared that 'I made a mistake and am returning everything; you know all this ill-gotten wealth. I don't want TANSI, take it back.'

I thought that was why she came to meet me in the first place after her defeat. I thought she was going to turn a new leaf. But then, she is totally under the control of Sasikala. Because of her activities, it is not possible to devote my limited energy. See, I don't have the government under my command. I don't have the CBI in my command. It took me five years in the Jayalalitha case. I would have done the same thing in the case of Karunanidhi also.

The cases, which have received conviction, are the cases that I filed. What about the other cases which Karunanidhi had filed on the cremation sheds, on saris, etc? He could not get a conviction in none of the cases. The conviction has come only in my cases because I had already documented everything.

Do you think this will be the end of Jayalalitha politically?

The remote control in her party is Sasikala, not Jayalalitha. Jayalalitha is a performing monkey in the hands of Sasikala. She performs according to her (Sasikala).

You mean she will not hold the remote control if her party comes back to power, like Shiv Sena leader Bal Thackeray?

No, she will not. It will be Sasikala. Party workers also know it is Sasikala. Whatever Sasikala says, Jayalalitha will do. When Jayalalitha herself is remote controlled, where is the question of she becoming a remote control?

ALSO SEE:

The Rajakumar Abduction

The search for Verrappan

The Rediff Interviews

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