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The Rediff Interview/ Ganapathy

'A voluntary federation of nationalities with the right to secede is what we want'

The People's War has today come to be identified as another militant outfit, another sore on India's troubled landscape. You are being equated with the insurgents of the North-East and Jammu and Kashmir. How is your fight different from theirs?

The movements of NE and JK have a very restricted aim. They are nationalist movements. They are fighting to protect their nationality interests. The PW, on the other hand, is leading a protracted people's war. Our aim is to dislodge the imperialists with the gun. The party, which is based on communist ideology, is building a movement that will bring forth the rule of the proletariat. Proletariat dictatorship. In that sense we have a wider, all-encompassing view.

Why have you chosen the path of violence? Why not democratic means to achieve your aim?

Because the rule of the masses cannot be achieved through normal political methods. The Indian people have only one way to usher in modern democracy: armed struggle. You cannot get anything for the poor from the existing democratic system. Despite millions taking up armed struggle in various forms, despite the so-called democratic methods, the so-called parliamentary procedures, the people are not able to enjoy even basic rights, leave alone political power. Such is the state of the State, the Establishment, the System.

The feudal system is still continuing here. Indirectly, the rule of imperialists is on. They are ruling through proxies, brokers. In this kind of system, it is not at all possible for people to empower themselves politically through conventional means.

We are leading what is basically an armed people's struggle. It has been launched by the people. It is natural that the ruling classes have to be overthrown for the downtrodden to come to power. Be it in America, Britain, Germany or Russia, the same thing applies, the same thing holds true. And this will be so in the future also. Even a small country with a tiny population of a few hundred thousands cannot escape this truism.

The Establishment has been labelling us revolutionaries variously as anti-social elements, extremists, terrorists etc in its bid to isolate/distance/sever us from the people. We shall counter such propaganda politically.

The land should belong to the one who tills it, not the landlord. They (the landlords) have kept vast tracts of land in their vice-like grip. They have been living off, pestering and frustrating the peasantry for ages. Will they give up land if normal methods are used? No. This problem has never been solved by any commissions constituted by Parliament. Nowhere in the world has this problem been appropriately resolved. So why should we lay our faith in such a system?

Another point is imperialist investments. These are sucking the Indians dry. Reducing them to pulp. The imperialists are looting the natural resources, riches and skilled human resources of this country. The middle-classes and even the bourgeoisie are being looted. All the development and production now happening in India are variously described as state-of-the-art, ultra-modern, wonderful, fantastic etc. But the fact is that these are nothing but characteristics of a neo-colony. All this so-called development is not happening for the good of the natives; it is certainly not happening with an intention to harness people's skills. I mean, the resources are ours, the labour is ours, but the capital is not ours. And the production is not for our people.

In such circumstances, will the imperialists go away if asked to leave, leaving behind their shops? It is on these very issues that the CPI and CPI-M fought elections for the last 50 years. But what is the result? The imperialists' investments have only risen, not dropped. Prior to 1947, it was only the British that were in power in India. After August 15, 1947, every imperialist country in the world has barged into India and looted it, just like that, to their heart's content. Why will they leave now like gentlemen if asked to?

How then can we fight by laying our faith in this parliamentary system?

Likewise, the big bourgeois. These guys have mortgaged our nation's interests to the imperialists. They are making their pot of gold in the process. The Tatas, the Birlas, the Dalmias, the Singhanias and several other capitalists with other names, companies -- these people are looting the country by suppressing the small and the middle-classes and the downtrodden. They are keeping their cut and passing on the major cut to their imperialist bosses. If we, the victims merely request an end to their rule, will it end? Is it possible to do it using parliamentary methods? If yes, why have not the CPI and the CPI-M been able to do it in the last 50 years? So, it is clear that solutions are not possible through ordinary means.

Both the State and your party are using violence. And caught in the crossfire are innocent Indians. Innocent proletariat Indians. Are you being fair to them?

Terming our activities as violence is not correct. Ours is counter-violence. Ours is a resistance struggle. We are resisting the violence unleashed by the State on the proletariat. Again, I would like to remind you that it is not the PW who is fighting the imperialists. It is the masses against the State. The PW is only leading them. So it is the people against the repression. It's the people's war. And who else will be killed in a people's war but people? Over 1,300 people have been killed in the crossfire. Of this, only a very small number were guerrillas. The rest were all prey to the violence unleashed by the State. The State is responsible for their deaths.

How have you changed the landscape -- social, economic and political -- of your areas of operation?

The PW adopts reformist ways to create awareness among the masses. On the political level, the PW has created awareness among the masses by exposing the selfish aspects of the so-called democratic political parties.

On the economic level, we believe in adopting self-sustenance methods. We mobilised people for several struggles. When the crops failed recently, we collected and distributed Rs 3.6 million among the farmers. In North Telangana, we had captured a lot of land from landlords. Due to repression, these lands were uncultivated. This year, we organised the peasants to cultivate on 2,000 acres of captured land. In Dandakaranya, due to our struggle, the tendu leaf pickers and bamboo workers are earning a decent living.

Our developmental committees took up several struggles demanding schools, teachers, buildings etc. All these struggles were taken up in areas where the people faced severe repression. Still we achieved remarkable success through sacrifices and blood.

Yet, 30 years after the Naxal movement started, your organisation is still confined to only a few pockets in Andhra, Orissa, Madhya Pradesh and Maharashtra. Isn't your movement dying down?

This question was posed to us in 1980, in 1985, in 1991, in 1995 and now again in 1998. Our mass base has been expanding all these years. We are spreading to several areas. Simply alleging that the PW is limited to this part or that part without considering the spread of our mass base is not fair. It is a fact that we are not growing fast. But it is also a fact that we are a growing force. We are spreading. When we started, we were a few individuals in Telangana. Now we have a full-fledged organisation. With this merger, our party is spreading further.

Students, an integral part of any revolution, are not with your party today. Why is this so?

It is true that the student movement has decreased in AP. But if you consider the situation in the country as a whole, their movement is gaining strength. It is growing in Tamil Nadu, Karnataka, Delhi, Bihar, Bengal etc. The revolution is rejuvenating its forces. The trouble is that the party is not in a position to consolidate the entire movement and transform it into a unified struggle. This is because of the severe repression we are facing now.

The major reason for the students to be at a low ebb in AP is that we lost around 100 student comrades in the last 10 years. The students faced as severe a repression as that faced by the peasants. For the peasants, the terrain and the movement are conducive to survival. In the case of students, this is not true. Their area of operation is limited, as they are all concentrated in urban areas. The middle-class also contributed to this. The upper middle-class is now more secure, more affluent. But sections in the middle-class are facing more problems. After the new economic policies and privatisation, the lower and middle middle-class are feeling insecure. I will give you an example.

In AP, there are 300,000 government teachers. There are about 200,000 qualified teachers. These people, many of whom are postgraduates, are now working as casual labourers. This situation is leading to great dissatisfaction and frustration among them. Such happenings are growing day by day. This will ultimately lead to anti-government movements again. The wave will come in the near future. The teachers are now almost ready to lead the students into struggle.

Another point: Earlier, the student movements of our organisation were concentrated in urban areas. Today, these have taken roots in rural areas too. We expect a rapid growth.

Which are these rural areas?

Areas of North Telangana, South Telangana and certain places in DK.

The middle-class intellectuals who once formed the backbone of your party have grown apart from you. Today they label you as 'romantic fools.' They say you are chasing mirages. Can you explain this transformation?

First, the middle-class and middle-class intellectuals are not our backbone, never have been our backbone, and never will be our backbone. Our party's backbone is always the proletariat, the agricultural labourers and the poor peasants. Not the middle-class and middle-class intellectuals -- not in the past, in the present or in the future. We agree they played an important role in our movement. In future also, they will play an important role as an alley of the revolution.

What happened in the past was that some sections of the middle-class and upper middle-class came in a wave into the revolution with a lot of romantic thoughts. And then they went back. That happened. But now the lower and middle middle-class and intellectuals are coming closer to the movement. The number of such people who have relation with the party is growing day by day. We have several all-India level mass organisations. All these organisations are mainly manned and led by the middle-class. These exist even in AP, where we are facing severe repression -- not openly as our front organisations. We are building many such organisations. This shows that the intellectual and middle-class base of the party is not decreasing but increasing.

If that's the case, why is the trend not visible?

You can't see this trend because we are not in a position to reveal it. We are organising them under different covers. It is not the objective conditions alone that are making the middle-class come back to the party. The party is consciously putting effort into this. We have started many organisations for this. This effort is in its beginning. So we can't reveal details now. But we are certain that in the near future you will be convinced of the truth about this.

Near future is a relative term. Can you specify a time frame?

We can't give dates at this point.

Are you claiming that there is no alienation of the middle-class from your movement? That they are still with you as they were in the 1980s?

No doubt, a section of the upper middle-class and the middle-class intellectuals have moved away from the revolution. This is due to the penetration of the imperialist policies into the country. On the other hand, there is the lower middle-class and middle-class. The distance between these sections and the revolutionary movement is closing day by day. This positive action more than makes up for the alienation of the upper middle-class sections.

The upper middle-class and the upper middle-class intelligentsia -- and here I include the NRIs, who form the majority of your readers -- do not at present have a good opinion of our party. But we believe their opinion can be changed. We are sure that the ongoing crisis in the world will bring about a change in their view. They will be disillusioned with the existing system of imperialist government. Already in Germany, movements against the Turks have started. And in America and other capitalist countries, fascist and racist forces are growing. Soon the people, the NRIs, will become the targets of fascist and racist movements. This will make them recognise the real nature of imperialism. They are bound to become pro-people and pro-democratic.

If the NRIs are not enemies of the revolution, why is it that the PW opposes investments from them?

We do not consider all NRIs who invest in India as allies of imperialists. We do not oppose the NRIs as a whole. A section of them colludes with imperialists. It is the capital coming in from this section that we oppose. We welcome capital from NRIs who are not imperialist agents.

A recent PW document says you are planning to target banks for funds and would tax the traders operating in your areas. Is that justifiable? The banks, after all, have the deposits of the poor and the middle-class. And how do you expect small traders to pay tax to you as well as the government?

It is true the PW released a document saying we would target the banks for funds. But the State-controlled press highlighted only this point, to defame the party. They only gave details regarding this sensational aspect. They completely neglected the other aspects like how we would collect funds from other enemies, and how these funds would be used for the people's cause.

The banks are supposed to repay the money to the people. They can't say the PW looted the bank, so we will not pay you back. If we find that they are not repaying their depositors, then we may reconsider this decision.

Regarding the taxation of small traders, the party will tax only those traders who are above middle-class. We will not touch the poor and the middle-class. We will impose tax only on those who can afford it -- namely the higher middle-class and rich traders.

The authorities allege that the PW has relations with many anti-Indian groups like the ISI and LTTE.

(Laughs) We deny the ISI part. We do not have any relation with them. That's State propaganda to discredit us.

What about the LTTE?

We have had no relations with the LTTE till now. But we are not against having relations with them. We will certainly have links with them if an opportunity arises. We feel that such a relation would be conducive to the revolutionary movement.

Are you exploring the possibility? Have you sent any feelers?

No, we haven't.

The LTTE is not a revolutionary party. Why, then, should you be interested in them? How will they be able to help your cause?

We support all parties/organisations in the world that are suffering due to the exploitation of the imperialists and the comprador bourgeoisie. In Sri Lanka, the Sinhalese are oppressing Tamilians with the help of the Indian ruling classes and other imperialists. As communists, we support all genuine national movements. So we are supporting the Tamil national movement. The LTTE is the leader of that struggle. However, that does not imply that we support all the tactics and politics of the LTTE. Our support is basically to the Tamilian nationalist cause.

You said you haven't had any relations with the LTTE. Are you denying that LTTE instructors conducted training camps for your squads?

They were not LTTE. They were ex-LTTE. What happened was that these people came to India after leaving their organisation and formed communist groups. The PW had relations with these groups. As part of that, they held training camps for us.

You said links with the LTTE would be good for your cause. How?

We will know the advantages only after we have relations. Without having relations, how will we be able to say?

What are you expecting out of the relationship?

Such a relation would bring solidarity between the masses of the two countries. It will also prove a major morale booster for all nationalist fighters.

If that is the case, why are you not actively pursing the possibility?

There are many organisations in South East Asia that the PW would like to have links with. But our resources are limited. We would not be able to maintain relations with all these movements at this stage. Once the revolution progresses, we will certainly try to have relations with such movements, including the LTTE. It is part of our policy to have relations with all communists and nationality struggles.

What kind of international relations do you have?

All communist parties will try to have relations with other parties having similar ideology. The PW too has developed relations at different levels with different militant communist organisations across the world, which follow the ML thought. We are now developing primary level relations with some other parties.

What are the parties with which you have relations? In which countries?

All I can say about this is that we have good relations with some strong parties that are following the correct line.

What kind of aid do you receive from these parties?

That's a technical point. I don't want to answer it.

Coming back to insurgent groups, what is the PW's basic criteria for having links with them?

Let me make one thing clear: Our support to any nationalist movement does not mean that we support all the activities of that organisation. We will support an organisation only if they support the ongoing revolutionary movement. We support only those struggles that we know are genuine nationalist struggles. There are struggles in Jammu and Kashmir, the struggles of the Nagas in the NE. We assure all of them the right of self-determination. On this basis alone we would hold relations with these people.

Wouldn't the right to self-determination lead to the disintegration of the country?

No. That's an untruth preached by parties with narrow nationalism, like the BJP. When nations are forced into a political system, there will always arise fresh national movements. You cannot hold on to nations that do not want to be part of your set-up. Force will always lead to division.

On the other hand, a voluntary federation of nationalities with the right to secede will lead to unity. That's what we want. The kind of federalism advocated by the ruling classes is not the right kind. Our federalism is based on equality, not bargains like the one that Chandrababu Naidu is talking about. That is why we support the Telangana movement. That's why we put forth the slogan of democratic Telangana.

'The political and economic instability the country is facing may dilute the severity of the repression'

The Rediff Interviews

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