The last person you expect to come face to face with in Gujarat is Samajwadi Party president Mulayam Singh Yadav. But then only cricket matches can rival elections for unpredictability.
As usual, the maverick politician has kicked up a storm, this time in Porbander where his party is backing an alleged criminal, Bhurabhai Munja, [brother-in-law of the notorious Santokben Jadeja, who is called Godmother in Porbander and surrounding areas] for the Kutiyana assembly seat.
During a whistle-stop tour of Porbander, he addressed a rally, met Samajwadi Party workers, a delegation of maulanas, supped with Munja and spoke at length to R Swaminathan on why his party is not an incongruity on the political landscape of Gujarat.
Why is the Samajwadi Party suddenly interested in Gujarat? You do not seem to have any base here.
We are interested in the unity and integrity of India. We want all the people to live in peace and prosperity. But the Bharatiya Janata Party is interested in splitting the country into two -- one comprising the Hindus and the other, Muslims. The prime example of this strategy is the post-Godhra riots and the present day Gujarat. The Congress, on the other hand, wants the current situation [polarised society] to prevail so that Muslims feel insecure and vote for it. While the party has been crowing that it will protect the Muslims, it did not even protect its [former] MP [Ehsan Jaffrey] in Ahmedabad. So we want the creation of a third force, not only in Gujarat, but across the country so that people can have an alternative. Such an experiment has been successful, whether in 1989 or in 1977.
But both failed...
They failed because of internal differences. But that is a different issue. What is important is that they provided an alternative and worked for the benefit of workers, farmers and the downtrodden. Whenever the BJP or Congress has come to power there has always been a danger to the country's sovereignty. The Congress went out of its way to invite foreign companies into India... so much so that they [now] control the Indian economy. Under the BJP the Kargil fiasco occurred. Between them there is always competition on who will be king of corruption. So many scandals... the hawala scandal, the Bofors scandal, the airbus scandal. So many have taken place during the Congress' regime. Now that the BJP has come to power, it is following in the footsteps of the Congress. So what I am saying is that both the parties are one. They do not want a third force to emerge, as it will be a threat to both of them.
The Congress did not support you during the recent political crisis in Uttar Pradesh. It says you are taking revenge for that by entering the electoral field of Gujarat and trying to split its votebank.
No, there is nothing like that. In fact we are not even angry with them. But we are unhappy and concerned as to why the Congress supported the BJP in Uttar Pradesh.
But the Congress is against the BJP in Gujarat.
Then why did the Congress not press for a vote [against the Mayawati-led BSP-BJP government] in Uttar Pradesh? Leave that. Why did they ask their 24 MLAs not to cast their vote in the Vidhan Parishad election? [Why did they hide the MLAs?] At that time they said they would support me if I had the numbers to topple the government. When [Samajwadi Party general secretary] Amar Singh rustled up the numbers by gathering the support of the Rashtriya Janata Party and independents, the Congress backed out.
But by entering Gujarat, aren't you being spiteful and trying to sabotage the chances of the Congress?
No, we tried our best. We even adopted a resolution at our national executive meeting in Bhopal asking all secular forces to come together to face the BJP in Gujarat and the rest of the country. But the Congress thought that if it joined hands with Mulayam Singh Yadav, the Hindus would desert it. So you tell me. What is the difference between the BJP, which is fighting on the platform of Hindutva, and the Congress, which is fighting to keep all Hindus in its flock... So let them worry about their Hindus; I am interested in creating a third force.
There are also allegations that your party supports criminal elements. Take the example of Phoolan Devi or your candidate for the Kutiyana seat, Bhurabhai Munja, who is reportedly an underworld don.
The Congress has given shelter to all kinds of criminal elements and it has the cheek to accuse us of harbouring goondas! In Uttar Pradesh all mafia [activities] take place under the chattra chhaya [protection] of the Congress. [At this point, Munja, who is also travelling with us, intervenes: I have already told him that if he shows me one shred of evidence then I would hand over my business to him {laughs}]. If you tell me one case that has been proved against Bhurabhai Munja, we would stop supporting him.
Why are you suddenly going hammer and tongs against the Congress? Between the Congress and BJP, whom do you consider the greater danger.
Both of them are equally dangerous for the country. But within the Congress there are still some people who are principled and follow the ideals of Gandhi. The BJP is an out and out communal party. But the question that needs to be answered is why the Congress is unable to fight the communal forces?
And why is that?
They are unable, or rather do not want, to fight such forces because every such incident is an election issue, a vote for them. Their prime focus is not the country. For example take the recent riots in Ahmedabad. The Congress wants the Muslims to feel insecure and vote for them. Why did they not do anything to stop the riots? In Gonda [a district in Uttar Pradesh] recently, when the BJP engineered Hindu-Muslim riots, Samajwadi Party activists went there and beat back the BJP goons. Within half a day everything had subsided. Why did the Congress not do anything similar? [Ehsan] Jaffrey made at least 80 calls to Delhi when a mob surrounded his house. Not even a single Congress leader stirred to save him. When one of our party activists called me to say that at least 80 members of his locality in Naroda-Patiya were under threat from a mob, I immediately called up the prime minister [Atal Bihari Vajpayee] and gave him all the details. Within half an hour the entire locality was secured. In all honesty I must admit that Vajpayee acted quickly. And the Congress could not even save its MP. Why?
You said there are still some principled leaders in the Congress. Can you identify them?
Names are not important, but many people close to Sonia Gandhi are pro-BJP... When I met Soniaji, I told her that though it is her party and she has every right to run it the way she wants to, there are many people who are giving her the wrong advice.
Are you planning to enter into a tie-up with smaller parties in Gujarat? For instance the Samata Party, which is going it alone in Gujarat despite having a tie-up with the BJP at the Centre.
We want to be equidistant from both the BJP and Congress. We will also not enter into a tie-up with any party that has any kind of a relationship with the BJP at any level. We want to create a third force, which is both anti-BJP and anti-Congress.
So you are ruling out any tie-up with the Congress.
The Congress will not change its ways. If the Congress wanted it could have toppled the governments at the Centre and Uttar Pradesh.
