China got first 'jhatka' during Galwan: Ex-Army chief Gen Naravane

Former Indian Army Chief General Manoj Mukund Naravane has said that the casualties suffered by the Chinese Army during the Galwan clash in June 2020 was the first time they got "jhatka" amid China resorting to "encroaching" territory of its neighbours over the past two decades and its territorial disputes in the South China Sea.

In Podcast with Smita Prakash, General Naravane recalled former Defence Minister George Fernandes' remarks about China being a threat "number one" and said people have now become more cognizant of it.

"Time and again have said that we will not like to get into the numbers game. So the number of causalities is not important what is important is the fact they suffered casualties. All along over the last two decades not only with India but with Bhutan and with Nepal, they are also encroaching. In the South China Sea, they have been encroaching. They have a free pass and never have anybody challenged them and they never ever suffered casualties. For them, it was a very low-cost, no-cost option," he said.

"Without doing anything, without suffering any casualties, they were gaining... their aims were being achieved. This was the first time they got the "jhatka" and that is what forced them to reassess this way of doing things. So that is what is important, the numbers are not important, whether it is one or 40, it doesn't matter," he added.

Following the actions of the Chinese Army, Indian and Chinese troops clashed violently in Galwan in eastern Ladakh in June 2020 in which 20 Indian soldiers laid down their lives. The Chinese have admitted four casualties but the numbers are believed to be significantly higher.

General Naravane said that during briefings, the Indian Army gives a clear and fair picture of what had happened in an incident to the political leadership.

He said that the Indian Army did not hide casualties during Galwan clash in eastern Ladakh as the Chinse have done.

"We have to give a clear and fair picture of what had happened. We try not to hide any facts and if something had happened like in the Galwan, we suffered casualties, we convey and state that we have suffered the causalities. We do not try to hide it as the Chinese have done and they refuse to declare causalities, then they declare four, then five but the numbers are much bigger. We give a very clear picture, we gave an assessment of what had happened and an assessment of what is likely to happen in the future. And in the future, I mean in the short term and the long term and based on that assessment what we need to do," Gen Naravane said.

"So that is how it generally transpires and each service gives their own view on the incident. Of course, in an incident that is more land-based and very localized, there probably would not so much input from the Navy but their input will also be taken into consideration," he added.

Gen Naravane, who was the Army Chief from December 31, 2019, to April 30, 2022, said priorities are decided in terms of threats.

"We will always have to prioritize and that kind of prioritization we do everywhere in our personal lives, so similarly we have to prioritize which is the more important threat and the more dangerous one. And, of course, more focused on that than the other," he said.

Gen Naravane said China has been perceived as a threat in the past.

"That's been the case not now but for many years and think our former Defence Minister George Fernandes had also said more than two decades ago that China is the enemy. So there is nothing new, it is just that we have become more cognizant of that fact. We are more open to talking about it than keeping it in the shadows and not mentioning it," he said.

China has been resorting to the "salami slicing" tactic along the Line of Actual Control to gain territory in a gradual manner and this has led to a "more assertive" response from the Indian Army, General M M Naravane said and noted that attempts to change status quo along the LAC have been thwarted.

Gen Naravane said the Chinese army has been trying to alter the status quo along LAC in very "small incremental steps".

"China has been trying to alter the status quo along the LAC for many years, decades in fact, and they have been doing this in very small incremental steps which by themselves do not look very dangerous. They look quite innocuous. What we call salami slicing, coming up one inch at a time. But in the bargain over a period of time they have gained a lot. This is the tactics they have adopted and were continuing to do," Gen Naravane said.

"There was a time to say this much and no further. So that is what actually happened as they kept trying to probe especially north of the Panong Tso (lake in Ladakh). They come time and again and then they want to make it a historical fact that we have been coming here. They tried to alter the status quo as it is existing," he added.

With China and India having a differing perception of LAC in certain areas, Gen Naravane said in the two sides patrol upto their perception line but there have been attempts by China to impede this in some areas

"We also patrol upto our perception line, they come up to their perception line. But while this is happening, if the patrols come face to face at the same time, then obviously there is a chance of a clash happening," General Naravane said.

Asked about the Galwan clash in eastern Ladakh in which 20 Indian soldiers lost their lives in May 2020, General Naravane, who was then the Army Chief, said that the Chinese Army was not "allowing" the Indian Army to patrol to the usual point and triggered a more assertive response from the Indian side.

"It's not that they came and they were not leaving, they were continuously patrolling up to where they thought they should be coming, but they were not allowing us to go where we ought to go. Therefore, we had to be more assertive and push them back. And that is where the clashes occurred and whether it is the North bank of Pangong Tso or in PP 15 where those unfortunate casualties took place," he said.

General Narawane said the Chinese Army had established two outposts to stop the Indian Army from patrolling to the usual point PP 15, which was "objected vehemently".

"As I said, we have always been patrolling upto PP 15, but they were trying to stop us from going to our traditional patrolling point and that was totally unacceptable to us. To stop us from coming, they had established small outposts, you can say, two tents. We objected very vehemently to that but they were adamant that they would not go back. Therefore, we had to be more assertive. That is when they also came with additional strength and entire clash happened in our side of PP 15. As a result, we were able to make sure that they go back," he said.

Gen Naravane's remarks have come days after the attempts by People's Liberation Army troops to transgress the LAC in Yangtse area of Tawang Sector in Arunachal Pradesh with the Indian Army thwarting the attempt to change the status quo.

In the latest attempt, PLA troops tried to transgress the LAC in Yangtse area of Tawang Sector in Arunachal Pradesh on December 9 to change status quo.

Defence Minister Rajnath Singh told Parliament on Tuesday that the Chinese attempt was contested by the Indian troops in a firm and resolute manner.

"The ensuing face-off led to a physical scuffle in which the Indian Army bravely prevented the PLA from transgressing into our territory and compelled them to return to their posts. The scuffle led to injuries to a few personnel on both sides. I wish to share that there are no fatalities or serious casualties on our side," he said.

He said due to the timely intervention of Indian military commanders, PLA soldiers went back to their locations.

As a follow-up of the incident, local Commander in the area held a flag meeting with his Chinese counterpart on December 11 to discuss the issue in accordance with established mechanisms.

Rajnath Singh said the Chinese side was asked to refrain from such actions and maintain peace and tranquility along the border and the issue has also been taken up with the Chinese side through diplomatic channels.

There has been a standoff along LAC in eastern Ladakh since May 2020 due to the actions of the Chinese Army. There has been disengagement from some friction points following several rounds of military and diplomatic talks between India and China but a full resolution still not in sight which has impacted bilateral relationship between the two countries.

Before his elevation as Army chief in 2019, Gen Naravane had held key command and staff appointments in peace and field both in the Northeast and Jammu and Kashmir and has been part of the Indian Peace Keeping Force in Sri Lanka.

He commanded a Rashtriya Rifles Battalion, raised an Infantry Brigade, was Inspector General Assam Rifles (North) and commanded a prestigious Strike Corps.