'Rahul Gandhi only does things that his appointed people tell him to do. I tried to meet him and highlight the problems but I could not meet him.'
A seasoned politician and two-term member of Parliament, Dr Shakeel Ahmad, who has served as a Union minister, resigned from the Congress party on Tuesday, marking the end of his decades-long association with an organisation that his family has been part of for three generations.
His resignation comes just after exit polls predicted a clear victory for the National Democratic Alliance in Bihar -- though Dr Ahmad insists his decision was made much earlier and had nothing to do with the exit polls' predictions.
Known for his articulate views and organisational experience, Dr Ahmad has often been regarded as one of the Congress' grounded voices from Bihar.
In this candid conversation with Syed Firdaus Ashraf/Rediff, he speaks openly about the growing discontent within the Bihar Congress, the sidelining of senior leaders, and what he calls the rise of "undeserving candidates" and "arbitrary ticket distribution".
While making it clear that he remains ideologically aligned with the Congress and wishes well for the Mahagathbandhan, Dr Ahmad explains why, in his view, it has become "difficult to be in today's Congress", reflects on the party's weakening social base, and shares his candid assessment of Bihar's political landscape, Nitish Kumar's prospects of becoming chief minister again, and the challenges ahead for the Congress.
Your resignation came after the exit poll results predicting an NDA victory. Was that the prod?
My resignation has got nothing to do with Bihar exit poll results. I had already made up my mind to quit the party before the exit polls. However, I did not want to quit the party during the elections because it could have harmed the party's interest. So, I decided to wait and resigned only after the voting process was over.
I am a Congressmen from the last three generations and I would never do anything that would harm the party's interest. I resigned at 6 pm and the exit poll results started coming from 6.30 pm.
But why resign?
It is because I was not happy with the people who are appointed in the Congress party in Patna. I have differences with them so I felt it was better to quit the party.
I had nothing against the central leadership but the people who are appointed as office-bearers of the Congress party in Patna.
However, my ideology is still the same as that of the Congress party. At the same time it is difficult to be in today's Congress party as senior party members are being ignored and sidelined.
Are these appointed people you refer to harming the Congress' interests?
Yes, they are harming the Congress party. Moreover, I was being humiliated in the party. I am an ex-member of Parliament and also a star campaigner.
Take the example of Tariq Anwar who is a current member of Parliament and Congress Working Committee member. You check Tariq Anwar's Facebook post during the elections. Now this CWC member is stating, don't give ticket to the ones who are undeserving. He further states with figures that the candidate who has lost by a huge number of votes does not deserve a ticket to win.
And see the irony, a Congress candidate who lost by 113 votes did not get a ticket this time and the one who lost by 30,000 votes got it.
Another candidate who lost by 62,000 votes too got the Congress ticket.
You can only imagine what is going on in the Bihar Congress.
Why didn't you meet Rahul Gandhi and inform him about this?
Rahul Gandhi only does things that his appointed people tell him to do. I tried to meet him and highlight the problems but unfortunately, I could not meet him.
Rahul Gandhi did not interact directly with me.
You were suspended in 2019 because you wanted to contest elections and the Congress did not give you a ticket. But later, you came back to the party and still things remain the same.
At that point of time I contested as an Independent candidate because it was (Rashtriya Janata Dal supremo) Laloo Yadav who did not want me to contest elections.
I was not against the Congress party. In every election speech I used to praise Sonia and Rahul Gandhi then.
But when you came back to the party fold soon after the Lok Sabha elections, why did things remain the same? Does the RJD influence the Congress party in Bihar?
The RJD used to influence the Congress party in Bihar, but not now.
Today, there are many other Congressmen like me who are facing humiliation in the Bihar Congress but are keeping quiet that they have to pass on the mantle to future generations.
But on that front too I have made it clear that none of my children will be joining the Congress party. They are not interested in politics.
Don't you feel that if the Congress is weak then you must strengthen the party by being a part of the party?
I am not against the party. There is a difference between being a member of the party and a well-wisher of the party.
I am not joining any other political party. I am a well-wisher of the party even now and want the Mahagathbandhan to form the government. That is the precise reason I did not resign during voting time.
Are you really hopeful for the Congress party?
I feel if the BJP (Bharatiya Janata Party) gets fewer seats and is unable to form the government in Bihar then the new turncoats who have joined the Congress party, they will disappear in a night if at all they win.
The Congress gave tickets to rich people who have fought the elections by putting in all their energy and resources.
So why give them tickets?
They got tickets and there is no denying it.
The central election committee of the Congress has become a joke. They exchanged seats with the RJD in a haphazard manner and there was no proper thought or planning done while distributing tickets for Congress candidates.
Was it a late preparation?
There is a tragedy for the Congress in Bihar for the last 30 years.
After the 1995 elections the Congress has started weakening in Bihar because upper caste voters started deserting them.
When Lalu Yadav won in Bihar in 1995, upper caste voters got disappointed and shifted their support base from the Congress to the BJP.
They realised that the Congress was not in position to defeat the RJD in Bihar. The Muslims had already dumped the Congress after the Bhagalpur riots (1989) and the Babri Masjid demolition in 1992. However, the upper castes had stuck to the Congress party.
They then shifted to the BJP in 1996 because there was no way the Congress could defeat the RJD in Bihar.
What can the Congress do to win upper caste votes?
Nobody talks about it in the Congress now because Rahul Gandhi has changed his strategy.
In the Congress people talk openly against the upper castes.
I don't see the Congress is interested in bringing them back right now.
If you recall, earlier Rahul Gandhi did try to woo them once by calling himself a janeudhari (sacred thread wearing) Shiv Bhakt. But now, he only speaks of backward castes, Adivasis and minorities.
And let me remind you it is a wrong impression among people that upper castes were upset with the Congress and therefore stopped supporting the party.
They left because they realised that it was only the BJP which is able to take on Lalu's backward caste politics and defeat him in Bihar. The shift happened in 1996 and they never came back to the Congress from that point of time.
Did anyone call you to urge you to not quit the Congress?
On a personal level people have called, but I have made up my mind.
I have written a with heavy heart that I have relinquished my party post.
Who will win the Bihar elections?
We have 40 percent votes and the NDA has 50 percent votes. 10 percent vote is with Prashant Kishor and others.
Now, I am talking this statistic minus SIR (Special Intensive Revision) because post SIR one can have surprising wonders in the results.
But the NDA has one disadvantage as there is a lot of anti-incumbency against their MLAs, especially the ruling party.
I feel that the NDA has a 10 percent edge but in seats where Yadavs and Muslims are 45 percent, Mahagathbandhan will surely win those seats.