'Only Yogi can succeed Modi'

'I don't think there will be any problem for Hindus to accept Adityanath as the leader, since they have already chosen Modi.'

"The problem with Hindu society is, it suffers from a kind of deception. It claims that it is the most secular community when it has no problem accepting Adityanath as the chief minister of the largest state of India. Yes, Modi might not don saffron daily, but he is all saffron!", Delhi University Professor Apoorvanand, an astute observer of politics in the Hindi heartland, tells Rediff.com's Shobha Warrier in the concluding segment of a two-part interview:

• Part I: 'UP vote was only for Modi's charisma'

There is talk about Yogi Adityanath as Narendra Modi's heir. Do you think India will accept him as a leader?

What prevents the Hindus of the rest of India from accepting him as the leader?

The problem with Hindu society is, it suffers from a kind of deception.

It claims that it is the most secular community when it has no problem accepting Adityanath as the chief minister of the largest state of India.

Yes, Modi might not don saffron daily, but he is all saffron!

We accepted him when he presented him as a priest and king in Ayodhya and Varanasi.

I don't think there will be any problem for the Hindus to accept Adityanath as the leader, since they have already chosen Narendra Modi.

The logical conclusion will be Adityanath, as only Adityanath can succeed Narendra Modi if the BJP continues to be in power.

What kind of impact will the BJP's success in the four state assembly elections have on the future of India?

It is very grim. It is not good news for a secular democracy.

In Uttarakhand also, the campaign was on a communal platform talking of bringing laws against land jihad which is to prevent Muslims from buying land there. It was as brazen as that.

In Manipur, it was more complex. The BJP has mastered the art of permutation and combination.

It talks about fighting separatists, it keeps talking about nationalism. But it also hobnobs with such groups, bribed them, uses them.

The impact of the victories will be national and it will reinforce the ideology of the BJP.

The BJP is achieving what it wanted: A Congress-mukt Bharat...

Yes, it is bad for Indian democracy that the Congress is disappearing and the influence of the Congress is shrinking.

The Congress is the only pan Indian party that can have an ideological response to the BJP.

The other parties, whether it is AAP or the BJD or the DMK or the TMC, don't have a national foot print. Or a concern about a secular idea of nationhood.

The Congress is the only party that has this concern, and it is very sad if the idea of a secular nation disappears with that party.

The Congress has to blame itself for the state it is in now. It is because of the complacent attitude, the infighting and no political drive in its leaders.

When I say leaders, I don't mean only Rahul Gandhi and Priyanka Gandhi, I mean all the leaders of the Congress party. I don't see any of them politically active at all.

And the loser is the country and also democracy...

Yes, the loser is the country and democracy.

It is not just the Congress. What about the other parties?

There was a churning in Indian politics or Indian democracy 30-35 years back when parties like the Samajwadi Party or the RJD emerged.

These parties were known as social justice parties.

They were supposed to give expression to those sections of society which didn't have any participation in Indian power politics.

They were also supposed to bring some transformation in Indian politics. But they became just a replacement of one dominant voice by another dominant voice.

And they chose an easy way out. For example, the RJD thought that the Muslim-Yadav combination will remain eternal and the extremely backward and other backward castes will remain under Lalu's leadership always.

He was mistaken. The same mistake was committed by the Samajwadi Party in UP also.

For them caste was just a bargaining chip. And what prevents others from experimenting it?

When the Yadav voice becomes dominant, it oppressed the other backward voices.

The other voices also had aspiration and they also wanted the share of the cake. But leaders like Lalu Yadav and Mulayam Singh Yadav became very smug and continued in their way.

And that allowed the BJP to talk to the other disgruntled voices. The BJP said, come to us, we will give you representation.

If it was only about representation and not transformation, then the BJP was ready to give them representation.

They gave them representation plus one more thing, and that was Hindutva. That was missing in the arsenal of the RJD or SP.

You mean, caste identity disappeared and religion became the main identity?

Both the identities, I would say exist together . The RSS said the existing caste order would remain as it is, and the BJP offered that.

What is a caste? Caste is a feeling of hierarchy. It is a feeling of me being the more dominant than you.

It is a relative feeling like we are all placed in a ladder and there is someone beneath me or below me. Nobody wants this power to go.

No caste wants equality. Even in Dalits, you gave segregation, you have a relation of dominance and subjugation.

The RSS never talked equality. It said, the order would remain. But they will get representation. The RSS gave that assurance.

They also would get an additional power to dominate the Muslims.

The last time when we spoke, I had asked you, what happens if Yogi wins 2022 and Modi wins 2024. Half the battle is won now. What is next?

I hope in the next two years, India doesn't further slide into this quagmire.

I hope that there will be some sustained effort of awareness of rejuvenation, that political parties tighten their belt, that intellectuals will do their work, and that a part of the media also recovers its moral compass.

You see that happening?

I don't see that happening. If that doesn't happen and a return of the BJP in 2024 happens, then it is going to result in a very long battle or a state of hibernation or simply a state of resignation.

It is a very nightmarish possibility.

Feature Presentation: Aslam Hunani/Rediff.com