When India began its last tour of Australia four years ago, Sachin Tendulkar was the captain, Kapil Dev the manager, Steve Waugh's champion side had just started its record run of Test victories, and Jaywant Lele strode the Indian cricket scene like a colossus. (Yeah, okay, that last bit was hyperbole, and many would rather use another 'c' word meaning funny man, but you cannot deny that Lele was probably the most high-profile secretary the Board of Control for Cricket in India has had in recent times.)
The whole country was outraged that a BCCI honcho was running down his own team, selected at a meeting he himself had convened, just as it was about to embark on the toughest tour in the cricketing calendar.
Lele, however, was vindicated as India lost the series 3-0, though, for the record, he denied ever speaking to rediff.com
Now, as another Indian team prepares for the first Test in Brisbane starting on Thursday, Lele, in another exclusive interview with Faisal Shariff, is again predicting disaster.
Lele, no longer a man in favour with the powers that be in the BCCI, also pulled no punches when discussing the Abhijit Kale controversy and corruption in selection. Excerpts:
[Former BCCI treasurer] Kishore Rungta has opened a can of worms by revealing that girls were found in selectors' rooms. Is there any truth in the allegations?
Of course! I was the person who saved them. Shivlal [Yadav] and Sambaran [Banerjee] had got a girl to the Wankhede Stadium [in Mumbai]. They were not allowed inside the Garware Club House; they were drunk and they fought. The receptionist was beaten up, but he called the gatemen and threw them out. He gave a written complaint about them. After two days I went and met Suresh Mehta [the Garware Club House manager]. I asked him to withdraw the complaint. If I hadn't interfered, both of them would have gone home that day itself. Now I feel I did something wrong. Board ka naam badnaam hota na [I felt the board's name would have been spoilt]!
You have also said that money changed hands during selections. It is an unclear statement.
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I said this is not the first time this has happened and this is not the last time. It has to be unclear. How can I say something clearly?
I don't know if anyone takes money. Lekin aisa hota hai, maloom hai [but things like this happen; I know]. Something is cooking and I know.
How do journalists get the team before a selection meeting?
I am shocked myself. That team [in 1997] was controversial. There were one or two people who should not have been there in 1997. Two selectors can change the course of the selections.
Why didn't you try to put an end to it?
No nonsense happened during the meeting I convened. Outside the room what happens, what can I say? You cannot drop or pick someone whose name has been taken. How can you stop someone on merit? Likes and dislikes often happen; these things should not be there. Only then can you come to select a team for India. But it happens now.
Are you happy with the team selected for the current Australia tour?
No. [Murali] Kartik has to be there; 110 per cent. [Anil] Kumble should not have been there. I don't agree with his selection. He was a great bowler. When he is not doing well, why take him? If I bowl 40 overs even I will take one wicket. If someone is helping the team for contracts you can't take him. You can't have a guy in the team because he is a good accounts man. Also I think five medium-pacers is a luxury. Three spinners and four fast bowlers. In Tests only three will play. Two will sit out.
How will the team fare?
If we bat well, they [the team] will do well.
Do well or draw?
Jeetne ka to sawaal hi nahi uthta hai [the question about winning just does not arise]. Where are the bowlers who will bowl them out twice? If they bowl them out once I will be happy.
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But there are four Tests. India might have a chance of coming back in the series.
Coming back? Yes. After losing the series we will have a chance of coming back [laughs]. There is no chance. Can you bowl this side [Australia] out twice? They will not throw their wickets away.
What will be the scoreline?
According to me, 100 per cent, India will lose 3-0; 2-0 bhi ho sakta hai [it can also be 2-0]. I think they will draw one game at least.
[V V S] Laxman, [Sachin] Tendulkar, [Rahul] Dravid will make runs. I'm not sure about the others. If [Sourav] Ganguly plays well, or S Ramesh plays well, it will be good for the team. [Virender] Sehwag ka koi thikana nahi [there's no guarantee about him]. [But] you can't drop him straight. Sehwag should bat at seven. He can't open against the Aussie bowling. Ramesh should open. Parthiv Patel or Deep Dasgupta should open with him. You have to compromise with a wicket-keeper.
Could Kale have offered money to the selectors?
Where is the money for him to pay the selectors? My guess is, I may not be wrong, Kale told me that he would ask the selectors how many more runs he must make to get into the India 'A' side. He wasn't given a chance after scoring 600-800 runs every season. When he went outside India with the 'A' team he was the only one who performed. He didn't fail anywhere. He must have asked the selectors why he wasn't picked? They must have said, 'Pay us Rs 10 lakh.'
Will anything come out of the inquiry?
[Jagmohan] Dalmiya is a shrewd man. He got it in writing from the selectors knowing that there would not be any other evidence. They [the selectors] are mad. They should have told Dalmiya, 'What we know we have told you.' Instead, they have given it in writing. Without any evidence, why did they give in writing? It is not Kale, but these two people [the selectors] who have asked him [Kale]. He is not a big cricketer like Nayan Mongia that he will offer money.
Did Mongia offer money?
No, I am giving an example. Why will Mongia offer money?