The Rediff Special / Varsha Bhosle

'If we were thugs, people would have booted us out long ago'

We met, I mean really met, within the celluloid frame: Like Balasaheb, Raj is a cartoonist; unlike Balasaheb, he's a maniacal Hollywood-movie-buff. So much so that he shoots off unsolicited ideas to the likes of Steven Spielberg, and someday plans to produce an English film. His eyes light up, his pitch changes, his animation triples when he speaks of David Lean or John Williams or James Cameron. It was a delightful insight to this lad who, hands akimbo, vigorously orates on caste/creed relations and regional chauvinism to seas of spellbound devotees. Ah, the demands of reality.

I cannot tell a lie: I unprofessionally gave Raj some leeway, in deference to his rawness. I set out to do an argumentative expose, and end up delivering the views of a part of Bombay's possible future. The thing is, I liked him. That is, at least until he does a Pramod Navalkar on me.

Marathi Chauvinism:

Was it the Shiv Sena that divided this country linguistically? Then, why is it a sin to ensure that the very basis of the formation of this state should be given its due?

Do they speak Hindi in Chennai? Aren't governmental forms in Calcutta written in Bengali? Then why are these holier-than-thou doses on cultural and linguistic chauvinism reserved only for Maharashtra? My stand is, if you cannot honour Marathi as the language of the state, then we have no choice but to force you to.

In the'60s, the Sena reacted to the stranglehold of non-Maharashtrians on Mumbai. But things have changed now people understood our outlook, and we have a good percentage of non-Marathi votes. The struggle is over -- we never saw the issue as vote-bank politics; it was a matter of the rights of the bhoomi-putra.

Secularism:

I believe that religion is a personal thing, to be practised only at home. Occasional festivals like Ganesh Utsav, Narvrati, Id, Muharram, etc are fine; the problem begins when religion interferes in everyday life. That's what the call for Hindutva is all about -- it's a reaction to minority appeasement.

Prayers on loudspeakers disturbed hospitals, and namaaz flowing out on streets blocked traffic. So we reacted with maha-aartis, worsened the situation, and brought it to the public's notice. You ask, why did we stoop to that level. I ask, if we had stopped the namaaz, who'd have borne the responsibility? It doesn't take much to riot under the name of religious freedom.

For a change, why doesn't the media give Muslims a dose on secularist ethics? In a rational world, secularists would have supported us because secularism means non-interference of religion in civic life. In a rationally secular world, illegal immigrants are criminals, regardless of their religion or race. Not so, here: Two years ago, six Bangladeshis were deported by Pakistan to India, and they are in Mumbai! Why? Is Mumbai Asia's dharmashala?

Bal Thackeray:

What I like most about him is the quality absent in politicians: What's in his heart, rises to his tongue. There's no guile, and no sheltering behind others. That, perhaps, is his greatest influence on me. He has a satirist's sense of humour -- which the press systematically distorts.

Eight years ago when I entered politics, Balasaheb heard my speech and said to me, 'Mudde chaangle ahet (the issues are worthy). But remember that though the thought must be yours, the language must always be that of the audience.' He taught me that communicating with people is not the same as catering to them: If my audience is used to abusive language, I won't start abusing, too, but neither will I flash a chaste language at it.

In our family, I doubt if anybody else has accompanied him on tours or seen him in action as much as I have: even as a child, I was always with him. Apart from hereditary resemblances, that early influence will always be there. People say that I copy his stance, but the posture comes naturally to me -- and it is aggressive body-language.

The Sena throne:

Both Uddhav and I got into politics only to assist Balasaheb. Neither of us entered with the thought, 'next, who?' -- I don't know why you pit us against each other. What matters is how we see ourselves, and not how others see us.

Yes, Uddhav is basically a shy person. But even Indira Gandhi was called a goongi guidya by Kamaraj -- and look what she did to him. Uddhav is very intelligent, and when the responsibility falls on him, he will be as assertive as anybody else.

The question of factionism doesn't arise: Shiv Sainiks are neither mine, nor Uddhav's -- they all belong to Balasaheb. It's true that eka myaanet phakta ekach talwar rahte (only one sword can fit in a scabbard), but why be so futuristic? Could you have told me three years ago that Rao could go to jail? In politics, it's the people who elect. I've thought about it completely -- we won't hurt each other. Uddhav should become the CM.

Voter profile:

When the Sena was born, the upper classes were resistant to us, and I don't blame them for it: They did not encounter the problems that the poor and middle-class faced from the influx of non-Maharashtrians. But since after the riots and bomb blasts in Mumbai, and especially after Balasaheb's appearance on Aap Ki Adaalat,the mood of the upper class, too, has changed. I know that the Sena cuts through all classes today.

Regional party:

I feel the Sena must develop a national presence. The kind of work we are doing in Maharashtra should be carried to every state. Biharis, Uddipis, etc, leave their families and come to Mumbai only because they feel they can get jobs here. It's important to develop centres in other states so that people don't need to leave their homes.

Sena Goondaism:

In every system, there are elements taking advantage of the power structure -- when we detect them, they are removed. If we were the thugs as portrayed, people would have booted us out long ago. During their convention in Nagpur, the Youth Congress boys harassed train passengers, wrecked civic property, didn't pay for meals -- but the press doesn't stamp them as goondas, does it?

When some Sainiks spontaneously attacked journalists, Balasaheb wrote against it in Saamna, ordering them to ignore the slander by the press. Had Balasaheb been in place of Kanshi Ram, I wonder where we would be -- how quickly you people forgot that assault.

The other day, I heard somebody was printing receipts in my name; in Nashik, someone else collected Rs 8 lakhs (Rs 800,000), in my name -- I had them arrested. But it's not possible to know everything. We have issued orders to shakha pramukhs, repeatedly requested people to complain to us, and alerted the police. You tell me what else I can do.

This interview first appeared in The Sunday Observer, India's first Sunday newspaper.